Curse

Fitz Rinley · Jul 12, 2007, 02:32 PM // 14:32

I do not want to stuff envelopes for a living. I do not want to be a repetitive midless idiot out farming for a living. I want to play the game. I want to get good decent things while I play the game. Since returning to the game I have seen a few green drops. I am absolutely positive these are completely glitches by the program. One of these is Kepkhet's Refuge. Two are worthless greens that will not even bring a k if I should try to sell them are are better off merched. In fact I attempted to use one of the greens on Hero Susouki and it only resulted in him getting killed, which tells me how worthless it really is.

Outside of that I have seen very few golds, and most of what I do see are worthless gold runes that merch for 10g if slavaged. But what I have seen is 2 dozen monk mesmers running in and out of Altrumm Ruins at the same time. They may not be bots, but they are certainly making money selling gold on e-bay to players. The way to stop them is to make their effort worthless. Destroy their reason for being here.

I just tried to raise enough of one drop to get a collector item I can settle for. It isnt what I want - it is acceptable. In several days of romping through the area I did not get one drop for the collector. Finally I camped outside The Eternal Grove and killed the same Gki repetedly for the body part. I killed the Gaki so many times I leveled and was 71% percent to making my next skill point and Never received a single collector drop. Nor did I ever see a single gold. Nor did I see a purple that was worth considering modifying or keeping. Nor did I see a blue that was worth modifying or keeping. Nor did I see a white that was worth modifying or keeping. The only hero I took with me was Tahlkora to help keep me up, as I am playing a Nuker and do not have any farming crap. All told I think I made about 3-4k in that time - which is pretty useless.

Anyone who supports, and I mean this absolutely, anyone who supports the continuance of restricted drops is only supporting e-bay gold and interested in controlling the play of their fellow players. The only way to end the e-bay gold and end the bots is to destroy their profit by making playing the game something that provides for the players as they play. Currently the game does not doe this and in my experience, starting 21 months ago, it never has.

Fitz Rinley

..L.. · Jul 12, 2007, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Destroying the reason bots exist sounds much simpler then it is. Why do people ebay for gold? Their too lazy to farm the amount they want to have better looks then anyone else without having to work for it. As long as there is an elite status to achieve people will strive for it to be in this way unique and in their way better then others, if your suggesting to destroy the need for them it would mean destroying all vanity equipment in the game or make it as cheap as any other armor wich I dont see happen in the near future.

However there are effective ways to deal with bots, anet could make a third realm of a god any of the ones currently have none, melandru for example they could make this area interesting to bot to lure the botters in there then banish them from the servers, this theory sounds simple aswell it isnt. But with much time spent into creating a trap for botters i think anet could lure them from their holes.

Asking anet to give one a viable source of income has been done more then 1000 times it will probally never happen, however they made some armors and materials cheaper to gain and these are now achievable by simply playing.

If you refuse to farm, I suggest you do some FoW trips for fun these should net a nice income. Also the free treasures are an option if you didnt handle them already. If your still displeased with getting gold, your going to have to farm here is a link how to farm lots of monoliths with a cheap a/e e/a build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GcLokdLID8 easy to obtain and easy to do, nets about 3 5 golds a run and 1 2kish in gold.

MithranArkanere · Jul 12, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Runes can be identified, you smart guy. Gold runes, once identified, may be sold for up to 500g. If you don't identify them, they will rarely go over 25g.

I would only agree to force Bosses to drop at least one trophy to at least one playing character.

Dougal Kronik · Jul 12, 2007, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Or they could also exempt collectable drops from the stupid Loot Scaling list.

MithranArkanere · Jul 12, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Some of them are quite an income, up to 60g. Like most weapons.
Just removing them out from llotscale would be like removing weapons.

MAking boss drop them would be better, since they are few, farmeable by the 'good' farmers (Boss riders, parties, etc...) and less bot-able.

Fitz Rinley · Jul 12, 2007, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Runes can be identified, you smart guy. Gold runes, once identified, may be sold for up to 500g. If you don't identify them, they will rarely go over 25g.

I would only agree to force Bosses to drop at least one trophy to at least one playing character.

I know exactly what the rune was I got. It was a superior rune of Water Magic - a worthless rune. There was no problem Identifying it. And yes, it can be destroyed out of circulation by selling to a regular merchant for 25 gold.

I am not just talking about dropping greens - although since I purchased Factions I have killed the healer bug outside Shing Jea almost every time I go out the door and NEVER seen the green drop. Most of the greens I have had in the past have been gifts (Flint's Staff) or cheap purchases (Rockmoulder, Shadestone). I have actually had drop, as usable greens, Bludgeoner and Kepkhet's Refuge.

I have two of the useless baby greens which aren't even sales worthy and some daggers for my assassin that I will actually find useful at some point. That is my entire list in 2,678 hours of play across two accounts. (And yes I go back to when you could not have more than four characters on an account and if you wanted to play all the classes you had to by more accounts.)

After Factions I got angry because of Faction, GvG not being open like it was during preview, the Favor control of FoW/UW which I still opose, the lack of storage (which is still insufficient for the games to the point I have had to buy extra slots for mules), the horrible presence in RP channel, and the incredible cost of everything in the game.

I want to play the game not spend all of my time farming for things I can live with. I have tried three times to make a necro in Elona and had to give up. I could not stand to look at the dirty little wench my character would have to be if I made her there. So I made her in Tyria and a friend helped me get her to Elona so I could play there with something that did not gross me out to look at. At least now it does not look like she is some kind of skank that wont take a bath. Getting appearances in game is not just about vanity, it is sometimes about decent - even moral taste. Being able to afford things that fit with the character or are decent to look at instead of dirty or ugly crap that I would not live with in my own home isn't mere vanity - it is having enough taste not to be gutter trash. Though I am sure some people who play the game consider that art - I have more education than that.

And none of that changes the fact that the only way to stop the ebay EULA violation is to make it not worth their while. Either prosecute the companies comitting these violations in some way - perhaps assist the IRS in researching those not paying propper income tax/tarrifs on moneys transferred for virtual funds, or sue in class action all those offenders for money to compensate law abiding players and Guild Wars for the damages to the economy and game hassles.

Damasus · Jul 12, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

I think that a class action lawsuit may be a bit too much to expect Anet to do. Sure, they could improve control on bots, but there is a limit for reasonable expectations.

That being said, I find that most prices have actually been dropping recently, and it seems to be an ongoing trend. Just look at ectos, mods, inscriptions, or any rare wep skin you care to name, the price is going down as the supply in game grows. Some are still outrageously expensive, but they aren't as expensive as they were, and in the future they won't be as expensive as they are now.

As far as making money without farming goes, have you tried Hard Mode? I find that after vanquishing an area, I get between 1-3k in drops, plus a couple grapes, or a gold, or a pick, or even some scrolls and a tome or two. While it won't make you the richest player in the world, it will make you enough to buy some new stuff. I financed a second set of 15k armor for my warrior just through vanquishing, so it can be done. Plus, its a fun and challenging activity, with a nifty title to work towards.

At any rate, thats my 2 cents

genofreek · Jul 12, 2007, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Seconding Hard Mode. The drops in regular mode are pretty much total crap, so if I'm really hard pressed for cash, I kiss my protector title, don the red helmet, and run outside.

I can usually get a few K even if the drops suck and go straight to the merch.

JeniM · Jul 12, 2007, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Just a quick FYI that Kepkhet's Refuge you keep calling merch food is (in my opinion) the best protection staff ingame

You don't have to be in level20 turf or hardmode to make lots of cash. I make huge cash in the North Shiverpeaks in normal mode
Look around and find a build and a place thats easy and rewarding

Willow O Whisper · Jul 12, 2007, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeniM

Just a quick FYI that Kepkhet's Refuge you keep calling merch food is (in my opinion) the best protection staff ingame

he he finaly i found something we both agree on

.

Fitz Rinley · Jul 12, 2007, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeniM

Just a quick FYI that Kepkhet's Refuge you keep calling merch food is (in my opinion) the best protection staff ingame

You don't have to be in level20 turf or hardmode to make lots of cash. I make huge cash in the North Shiverpeaks in normal mode
Look around and find a build and a place thats easy and rewarding

I think if you pay attention you will find that I said I had KepKhet's Refuge and Bludgeoner drop as useable greens - that is in 21 months of having the game, and 2,678 hours of play.

Unless ANet wants to encourage bots, EULA violations, and is somehow profitting from the illicit economy they have no reason to maintain the restrictions. If they want to end the bots and violations then they will open up drops so that people can get what they want without being restricted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damasus

As far as making money without farming goes, have you tried Hard Mode? I find that after vanquishing an area, I get between 1-3k in drops, plus a couple grapes, or a gold, or a pick, or even some scrolls and a tome or two. While it won't make you the richest player in the world, it will make you enough to buy some new stuff. I financed a second set of 15k armor for my warrior just through vanquishing, so it can be done. Plus, its a fun and challenging activity, with a nifty title to work towards.

Yes, I have been in Hard Mode. I have completed a couple missions in Hard Mode. Frankly, I used to make more killing in the Crystal Desert a year ago than I got in Hard Mode in the same area, and my drops were better. But now that Elona exist with inscriptions, everything in Tyria and Cantha that isn't Perfect Max and Exact for build is a piece of merch fodder.

Damasus · Jul 13, 2007, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

Yes, I have been in Hard Mode. I have completed a couple missions in Hard Mode. Frankly, I used to make more killing in the Crystal Desert a year ago than I got in Hard Mode in the same area, and my drops were better. But now that Elona exist with inscriptions, everything in Tyria and Cantha that isn't Perfect Max and Exact for build is a piece of merch fodder.

Sounds like bad luck, unless you were farming back then, in which case it isn't really a fair comparision. At any rate, yes, the Elonian changes have made many thing less valuble. But that just means it takes less merch fodder to get to that item you want.

I've clocked almost as many hours as you, and have likewise recieved only a handful of greens. Even after opening hundreds of chests, I've only found less then a dozen items worth selling to others, and only last week found my first item I thought of as worthy of putting up for a low-end auction (and it isn't selling

.) The point is, rare drops are rare for a reason, not everyone gets them all the time, before or after the the loot changes. If you don't want to farm, then just do what you want, and use merch fodder to save up for that item some other fellow was lucky enough to get.

Fitz Rinley · Jul 13, 2007, 06:37 PM // 18:37

The only reason to keep items rare, and to keep items limited, is if ANet is profitting at the back-end of the botting industry. If they are not, then they have no reason not to destroy the botting industry by eliminating the need for their services.

I have purchased a couple of things. I detest it. I hate spending hours farming through the trade channels begging people to have something I want at a price I can afford. And that is all it amounts to. There is no game in that crap. It is a demeaning, painful, tormenting period dealing with jerks. I hate selling and I hate buying.

Keneth · Jul 14, 2007, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Well the botters won't die, there will still be plenty of them and plenty of people who want to sit on their fat butts doing nothing while getting anything they want with a few clicks on money-selling pages.

That said, I tend to agree. The botting business would thin out considerably and people would actually start playing (dare I say "enjoying"?) the game instead of grinding for hours on end to get what they want if the income were to increase. And we're not talking a marginal 20% or something increase here, it has to be way larger to have any effect. And I also agree that rare items should stay rare, there's no point if that were to change but while they do need to be hard to get, I don't think one should have to grind in the same place over and over for them. That's not hard, that's just tedious. A good example is Mallyx, the mission is god damn hard, and killing him is no afternoon tea party but in the end you get a reward, always. It's fun and it's worth doing and that's what everything should be like, instead I had to make 143 2-3 min runs today to get one single item I've been aching for because it wasn't on sale anywhere (now I know why). That was not fun, it was not profitable and no, I don't feel good about myself now that I have the item.

Damasus · Jul 14, 2007, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Ok, I'm a bit lost. Is the purpose of this thread a recommendation to petition for an increase in drops? If so, why complain about worthless drops? After all, even a sup water rune would be worth thousands if it wasn't at least somewhat common. Additionally, who's to say that increased drops equals decreased bots? If every drop in Guild Wars were to double (double gold, double the chance for uncommon and rare items, greens, and perfect mods) what exactly would happen? Bots would continue, and perhaps even do better. They're getting twice as much now, and although they may have to cut their prices to entice buys, that just makes them more appealing to a wider part of the gaming public. Rather it takes 2000 hours or 1000 hours to get 1000k is irrelevant to person buying gold from the bots. They want instant gratification, and nothing is going to stop at least some of the gold seller's clients from purchasing. As long as customers remain, the bots will remain, changing drops won't change bots.

Fitz Rinley · Jul 14, 2007, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Damasus, that is not how economics works. Are people selling Short Swords (Req 0): Dmg 2-4? Why is it they do not sell them? Why aren't the bots running up to us in Droks baning on us to trade with them for these swords? Is it because they are not in demand? When you eliminate demand for the good or service you eliminate the person who sells it. We only by Air when we cannot breath normally. People will only give up cash for e-bayed gold and loot if they cannot get what they are after normally.

The point of this thread is to eliminate bots/e-bayers ANet is going to have to provide us with access to what we want and need to get. I have a character built entirely on the theme of the Raven staves. She will never carry or use one because they are a waste of effort to get. They do not have any valuable stats. The are 17% and sliding down hill from there. And it is really a shame they have wasted some really nice skins, like the Rave, Dragon, Cockatrice, Celestial, with such poor stats that they are useless to a player as anything other than merch fodder. (And now with inscriptions for weapons in Elona, nothing in Cantha or Tyria that is not perfect has any value at all outside of merch fodder.) I have accepted that things that would be nice in the game, fun in the game, enjoyable in the game, ANet will never give a rat's arse about. But in the meantime, the game itself is being destroyed by bots and sweatshop farmers. The only way to drive them out is to make their services unnecessary. That is done by creating such a supply that there is no reason for people to ever go to third parties to purchase virtual gold or virtual items for play using real cash.

Changing the drops is the only way to eliminate the bots and the sweatshop interest. It is the only way to make their time and effort in our game worthless to their bank account.

the_jos · Jul 14, 2007, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Seems to me this is just an other 'loot scaling' thread in disguise.

Commander Ryker · Jul 14, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Runes can be identified, you smart guy. Gold runes, once identified, may be sold for up to 500g. If you don't identify them, they will rarely go over 25g.

If you ID without salvaging, they are worth what ever the armor that they are on is worth. I usually don't salvage unless it's a vigor.

Damasus · Jul 14, 2007, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

Seems to me this is just an other 'loot scaling' thread in disguise.

Starting to seem that way to me as well. But even if loot scaling were undone, it wouldn't stop bots.

The only way I can see to implement Fitz's idea of having widely available weapons in every skin would be to have every character be able to personalize weapons with skins in some sort of system similiar to the pvp wep creation system. As nice as it would be for everyone to have an elemental sword, this doesn't seem to be a likley move on Anets part, especially when one considers how readily available max weapons are. To do so would completely undermine the game's economy (and not just the bot controlled portion.) Indeed, what would be the point of money in such a system?

One could I suppose implement either an advanced weaponsmith system with different skins costing different materials, or a system like the tournment reward one only with money used to buy the skins, not reward points. But if money were to be implemented anywhere into any skin unlocking system, lazy people would buy money, and bots would thrive. In short, I fail to see how one could flood a system with enough items to invalidate gold buying while at the same time keep a thriving legetimate in game economy.

As far as the wasated skins of Tyri and Cantha goes, I wholeheartedly agree. I'm all for implementing the Elonian weapon system on all the continents. In fact, I have a suspicion that Anet will be doing just that in the near future, perhaps with the release of GW:EN. This won't be stopping bots, but it will give all players a chance to better get that skin they want with usable mods.

Fitz Rinley · Jul 14, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Frankly, I don't care about the in game economy. I have owned the game for 21 months. I have never found anything in the economy beneficial. I have never found anything in the constant trade spam enjoyable. I have never found farming to be anything but the most degrading monotonous assembly line manure ever invented. I have occassionally sold crafting materials, and hated sitting in my chair advertising for hours. I have in the past tried to sell max gold items with perfect stats and ended up selling them for 100 g each just to get them out of the way so I could play the game. The economy in GW does now and has always sucked simply because it is there. It is a waste of time, and mostly benefits those who do not want to play the game - but simply forgot to get off the clock when they clocked out so they need some other routine monotonous task to labor at, or who have been playing since first beta and had full advantage of every exploit and money maker there is - so they play at 100k + 50 ectos to purchase because they do not need your money and can restrict their sales. After all, they are still playing so they can show how much they have and new people dont.